General observation: Having the nats as close to the corners as possible is a natural solution to the too-short-distances problem...

Try something more like this (very rough sketch):


Minonlies are bascally directly copied from Gaia :P
And having the gas expos like that does probably not work out at all (everything tankable...)
I think making the middle less horizontally and more diagonally oriented should also be no problem...

Making good use of the free corners next to the nats (here at 11 and 5) proves to be the main problem time and time again... maybe yo can come up with a good solution, like better oriented nat chokes or something...

I chose desert anyway :P Was gonna do ice... but decided not to for the sake of everyone's larger eyes.
ill come up with something :) This one seemed to be more y=-x symmetry when i did it...

lalala ^^
Strangly, when i tested the distances from the natural ramps, they are the same from 12 main going to 1 main and 7 main
Also the thirds and middle expansions are the same distance
scouting path always is on the low ground
modified by CrystalDrag

Oh, wow, This seems to work out surprisingly well...
Very interesting symmetry in deed...

Can you push the low ground thirds all the way to the edges (so the gas touches the edge) and move the middle expos/add some clutter so that the low ground expos is out of tank range from the high ground (vice versa may not work, but it's OK to have that expo cliffable, I guess).
One problem, that I also had with ChemLab, is, that Protoss has a hard time to get a third gas in vertical matchups (either one has to expand towards your opponenet or take a very far expansion at the nearest nat or drop-expand to the close main...)
Protoss profits a lot from minonlies, and many minerals in general though, so I just made gave the minonlies 7 minerals and the nats 8... Maybe you should consider that, too.
Or add an island expo between the mains, space may suffice, but don't force it...

Maybe some one else has a better idea... Just wanted to point it out...

What is Natsukaze?
And shouldn't this be version 2.0? :P
modified by Freakling

push the low ground thirds all the way to the edges
move the middle expos/add some clutter
minonlies 7 minerals and the nats 8

Too small to add an island expo, already tried that.. tankable from both sides.

I think it means \"summer leader\" or something.
modified by CrystalDrag

I think PvT drop expanding to the near main and just pylon walling off the ramp is a satisfying option... You'd have to defend against vultures until the wall is up, but with some dropped goons that should also be no problem...

PvZ... Not sure...

Maybe you can "rip off" Triatlon and amke the low ground expos semi-island with some egg walls. Not so great, if that's the path one's scout wants to take, though... But some fine adjustments to the paths might solve that problem...

OK, enough thinking aloud from me for now...

i could shrink the middle ramps and add gas expo there...
I feel like we are the only people here :D
modified by CrystalDrag

My idea (for now, it\'s still fresh, so not necessarily the best [or even just good] :P) is:

I just checked distances, and low ground expos should actually be out of tank range already...

So, move the low ground expos to the edges (nothing to lose with that, but two tiles more space gained, hooray), then also extend the cliffs behind the high ground thirds (and the resources with them) two tiles towards the edges (keeping distances the same, before you do any further steps I'd suggest the you go into the game and test with actual tanks if they can hit a Command Center on the low ground from the edge of the cliff, add doodads were they can...)

After that you can add some clutter, move the low ground path a bit outwards, closer to the edge (now there's just tar, so nothing to lose there either), reshape it a bit (I don't think you should constrict it toom much though), move the wide ramps, to the centre plateau, closest to the nats by slightest bits if required, until you've reached the point were workers will merrily take the middle path
finally add egg walls (and possibly Arbiters... Leave scarab gaps ;) ) to make the low ground expo semi-island (like on Triatlon)...

Keep a copy of the current state, in case my idea is just bad and this turns out terrible ;D
modified by CrystalDrag

^^Yeah...
I hope JungleTerrain will eventually complete one of his many half-done maps...

Wait was it with 1.0 or 2.0 o_O

Oh, allright, this actually has both expos tank safe... May work as well.., Only the Hatch/CC/Nex may get in the way of unit pathing but it doesn't look really bad...

I think you can go 3 squares from the Hatch/CC/Nex towards the cliff without getting hit.
I could rearrange the 3rds so that they will be one matrix closer.. but dont want to sacrifice gas positioning

and still dont understand about the triathon and how it would fit in the map
modified by CrystalDrag

You just block off the low ground expos with an egg wall on each side...

OH!!!
Thought you were still talking about an ISLAND XD
And the eggs should be far enough that tanks cant shoot the expos from there.

This cant be all the editting i have to do before decoration
modified by CrystalDrag

Non-cliffable egg-walls would probabaly be good... At least it feels kinda wrong to me if there is a wall and you don't have to actually go there to tear it down :P

And at least I cannot think of any other pending changes right now...

Maybe some one else has, but most other posters aren't really overwhelming with suggestions I guess :P
Oh, wait, this thread hasn't even had any other posters so far...
I guess if you want more feedback you'll have to be patient and with for some one to come around ;D

o.o! Hahaha mkay. :P
Question :
For the doodads that provide the defensive tile, is it still acceptable to use as decoration?
modified by CrystalDrag

Yes, you probably won't out them anywhere in the middle of things anyway... It's just somewhat like having a tree on the map...
And if you want to limit the effect, you can always convert the doodad to terrain (and sprite...) and replace the (fully) walkable tiles with normal tiles.

wow this looks pretty sexy

;D

Weird symmetry

I dont think this is symmetric any way. unless some complicated function. :P

How shall i decorate the area horizontally?...
modified by CrystalDrag

f(x)=-f(-x) is not a particularly complicated funtion :P

Do you mean the central plateau?
Personally. I like the more rocky appearance, so just some small strips of sand around the expos and something unbuildable between the middle pair of ramps. You could pick&copay the ramptop terrain from one of my desert maps (I'd really suggest to just pick & copy it, because it's very easy to accidentally slip some elevation-"bugged" tiles in there if you do them from scratch...

Not a fan of the narrow center ramps

Is it just me, or do the mains look a little too small?

Even if, there's enough space to easily fix it...
Have you tried it in-game? Seemed OK to me.

If need be, i can always extend it into that vast gap...

cant do the middle stuff :/

O_o?!
Why not?

Tada. Very fast map...
Decoration

Observer Updated

Another issue with this map is that is might give the wrong impression that i am Japanese...
modified by CrystalDrag

I really like the concept...although it has that Tau Cross airspace thingy, where one base has like 90 degrees of airspace around it but another has 180 degrees...but its really cool I think it could work out...

Haha Crystal, pretty sure the Versailles series didnt give that impression xP

Thanks. :)
Also remember for the mains in the corners, the naturals are much more harrasable by mutalisk than the others.

Yeah, it's not just "the tau cross" thingy, but pretty much the "any (3)map thingy... And as far as mutas go, you have to look at main and nat anyway...
So what is this new obsession with Japanese map names?

All the korean songs i listen to doesn't have anything relevant to this desert... I think i may rename it "NEVERLAND" o-o

*lol* According to an online dictionary "Natsukaze" (hiragana: なつかぜ, kanji: 夏風邪) means "summer cold" (the illness).
Yep, you should change that :P

How about "No Man's Land"?

Ill find some good name o.0

Just was in the list of Deserts, and it looks cool...

and it's impossible to say :P

For the whatsitcalled description for the map just write a description of the desert...where is it located? Lol if you want a corny name call it something to do with Mar Sara

The Saryesik Atyrau Desert stretches for about 400 km south of Lake Balkhash in eastern Kazakhstan. It is a sand desert, relatively ecologically healthy with little erosion. There are numerous small lakes and ponds in the desert, as well as occasional grasslands, that support a varied animal and bird population.

Dont wanna put that. I want to advertise BWMN with it :D

"and is home to many freaklings"

The Saryesik Atyrau Desert, Located in Eastern Kazakhstan, is home to many freaklings."

Lool...how about writing a short story about how it was the location of a secret facility for the UED...

Na too lazy ^^

Is there a character limit to how long the description can be?

o.o How much can be read in-game

Hehe, need to add this to the next map pack, just to see casters going absolutely nuts over the name :D

Can i go ahead and add this and teru to the next one?

If yes, then i will focus efforts doing collaborative maps with traceurling,negative,ortaranok so themap pack does not become the \"freakling crystaldrag junngleterrain map pack\"

If too early then .-.
modified by CrystalDrag

Lol I've been tying to start a map but each time I do I'm like gahhh too lazy I've got an okay idea for a twilight and jungle map but so hard to get started xP

--------------------------------------------------
I will make it work.

How about someone works with me? D:

yeah yeah go excalibur!

Either there's an SL missing - or there's a white player colour, which you should change...

Couldn't you have uploaded this as a new map? No reason to throw the desert version away.

extended the mains a little bit and reduced some of the unbuildable terrain in the mains...
and balanced the start location gaps relative to the edges of the map.

Also pathing is disrupted(obviously..), but if you send your worker to the mineral only on the opposite it should be fine.

I think I can fix the pathing... I'll try tomorrow.

By reorienting the paths to the thirds in the empty space, and then moving the middle?... I dont know how.

Looking forward to the space map~
modified by crystaldrag

Do you think this map would be good for 2v2s also?
God close air spawns...I got raped by Carriers cuz I suck at TvP and whenever I tried to push Carriers raped my main then moved two feet to rape my army...but that's just cuz I suck at Terran...
modified by traceurling

Did you design these main ramps to match the normal jungle/badlands remaps in size/width?

Yes i did.

If you are talking about the ramps for 11 and 5, then those ramps i designed so they should be balanced as well...
i must warn you that alot of the decoration/different terrains were copy/pasted..

my school tried to block the address "www.broodwarmaps.net" Which is funny. :) When i can just type "panschk"

modified by CrystalDrag

lol crystal... I gotta say thats pretty funny :)

But they blocked TL :c But i Have twitch...
These web sites were blocked specifically for me XD

I got twitch YouTube and iCCup blocked

They can't block all web proxies though :P
modified by Freakling

Haha yup just use a VPN thingy

And people said my map names were complicated :p

There are 3 bad mineral patches, where you started.